<font size="8">PC liberal BS!</font>
Schools Take the "Christ" out of Christmas--and Celebrate Ramadan
by: Timothy J. Dailey, Ph. D.
Radical civil libertarians are alarmed that religious references are still cropping up in public schools celebrations of the national secular winter holiday otherwise known as Christmas--even as public schools open their doors to Muslim educators to inform students about Islam.
New Jersey's South Orange/Maplewood School District thought it had successfully exorcised any religious content from its holiday concert. But alas, while no spoken references to the Christ Child were permitted, it was discovered that a number of instrumental renditions of traditional carols had somehow slipped past the censors.
That oversight has now been rectified, and this year the audience will no longer hear the familiar refrains of carols celebrating the birth of the baby Jesus. The district school superintendent explained that "rather than try to respond to all the various religions and try to balance them, it's best to stay away from that and simply have a nonreligious tone." Faced with public criticism, the school district issued a memo suggesting that songs such as "Winter Wonderland" or "Frosty the Snowman" are suitable: "Music centered on peace is also a nice touch," the memo offered.
At the same time, however, some public schools appear eager to expose their students to non-Christian religions such as Islam. In Herndon, Va, a Muslim "multicultural trainer" taught third-, fourth- and fifth-grade students about the practices and beliefs surrounding Ramadan. This included presenting the call to prayer and displaying religious artifacts such as prayer rugs. In public school classrooms across the country, similar efforts are being made to educate students about aspects of the Muslim faith.
Last year a federal judge in Byron Union School District in California ruled that the district could use a teaching curriculum about Islam that utilized role-playing exercises that required seventh-grade students to recite Muslim prayers. Despite the ruling, as a result of a public outcry the program was suspended.
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<font size="8">PC liberal BS!</font>
So what do you two defenders of the true american way have against learning about islam? Do you object when they teach about christianity as well?
(Just to try and head off the inevitable neocon kneejerk response: I'm talking about learning about religions not promoting them.)
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is the seperation of Church and State as has been defined by the courts. You cannot teach ANY religion in schools. You are not allowed to teach Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Budda, etc, etc, etc. It has been so ordered by the Supreme Court. You wanna learn about religion, go to Sunday School.Originally posted by Pi?a:
So what do you two defenders of the true american way have against learning about islam? Do you object when they teach about christianity as well?
(Just to try and head off the inevitable neocon kneejerk response: I'm talking about learning about religions not promoting them.)
I would say having kids recite prayers and having religious artifacts is promoting religion.
Way back in the day (1972) I learned about other religions in a public high school.
Of course, we were allowed to wish one another Merry Christmas and Happy Easter.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See, here's the crux of the false argument that the neocons would like for you to believe. They would have you think that you can't so much as mention religion in schools as if it were some sort of assault on your right to hold whatever theistic or non-theistic beliefs you want. It's part of the overall "hijacking" of the moral high ground.Originally posted by Gunslinger:
It is the seperation of Church and State as has been defined by the courts. You cannot teach ANY religion in schools. You are not allowed to teach Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Budda, etc, etc, etc. It has been so ordered by the Supreme Court. You wanna learn about religion, go to Sunday School.
You can teach about religions in public schools, you just have to make a reasonable effort to treat them all pretty much the same.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Only if it's done out of context or if one religion is given more emphasis than any other. In a class teaching about the religions of the world, you know like social studies, then examples of prayers or artifacts is perfectly appropriate and permissible.I would say having kids recite prayers and having religious artifacts is promoting religion.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See, here's the crux of the false argument that the neocons would like for you to believe. They would have you think that you can't so much as mention religion in schools as if it were some sort of assault on your right to hold whatever theistic or non-theistic beliefs you want. It's part of the overall "hijacking" of the moral high ground.Originally posted by Pi?a:
[QB] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Gunslinger:
It is the seperation of Church and State as has been defined by the courts. You cannot teach ANY religion in schools. You are not allowed to teach Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Budda, etc, etc, etc. It has been so ordered by the Supreme Court. You wanna learn about religion, go to Sunday School.
You can teach about religions in public schools, you just have to make a reasonable effort to treat them all pretty much the same.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with the equal treatment in the teaching aspect of different religions, it is good to give kids a wide range of knowledge on things like this.
it is groups like the ACLU and their umpteen million lawsuits who have made it so that you can't mention religion in schools without be called out as someone who is trying to convert their students. They are the ones who have run to the court system in the past to get all kinds of things banned from schools.
No, the ACLU kicks in when schools attempt to force students to listen to or participate in activites that promote one religion while excluding others. Since you agree that discussing all of them equally would not be a problem, why do you disagree with ACLU activities?
Gunslinger
Lan is right on this one. Just because you've heard that the ACLU is trying to make religion verbotten in schools, usually by neocon extremists who like to toss around the term "PC", does not mean that is what it is actually attempting to do.
The line between what is and what is not promotion of one religion over another can be a fine one at times but someone has to work to determine where that line belongs. As long as our country holds seperation of church and state as a cornerstone of our society then you need someone to defend that principle and the ACLU is dedicated to just that task.
Is the ACLU perfect? Nope, but then who or what is?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What is your source for the above? We hear about this sort of thing all the time but usually it comes from some one or organization that has an anti-ACLU agenda.Originally posted by Gunslinger:
b/c they have threatened to sue school districts over kids wearing Christian shirts, yet have done nothing when kids are running around wearing shirts promoting other religions, including Satanism.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What school is "promoting" islam? The story trav cut and pasted has a passage that readsWhy isn't the ACLU threatening legal action on these schools that are 'promoting' Islam without 'promoting' any of the other religions? I'll tell you why: They have a HUGE double standard on this issue that would be laughable if it wasn't so nausiating.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What actually was happening at the school? What was the context of the incident cited? For instance was it part of a larger more general curriculum? Did they teach about other religions as well? What does the school have to say on the matter?"At the same time, however, some public schools appear eager to expose their students to non-Christian religions such as Islam. In Herndon, Va, a Muslim "multicultural trainer" taught third-, fourth- and fifth-grade students about the practices and beliefs surrounding Ramadan. This included presenting the call to prayer and displaying religious artifacts such as prayer rugs. In public school classrooms across the country, similar efforts are being made to educate students about aspects of the Muslim faith."
You'll notice in the article that it only states that they were making efforts to educate the students about islam. It does not state that they were promoting it. The two (education and promotion) are not the same and the distinction is very important when trying to establish what is or is not allowable in a public school in accordance with our constitution.
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